What are some best practices for online training?
January 6, 2023
Corrie and her team at Entrust Equipping Women were ahead of the game when it came to online training. Find out what they learned about platforms, best practices, pitfalls and joys of ministry training online.
Guest Corrie. As one of the directors of Entrust Equipping Women, Corrie has discovered and finessed, with her team, the use of online learning platforms and other digital applications to maximize relationships and growth in women.
Links
Corrie's Equipping Christian Leaders article https://www.entrust4.org/post/online-training-a-passing-phase-or-here-to-stay
Entrust online training opportunities https://www.entrust4.org/equippingwomenregisteronline
Transcript
Speaker Name | Start Time | Text
Todd (intro/outro) | 00;00;01;20 | Happy New Year from your friends at Entrust. What are you trusting God for this year? We trust this will be a year of expanded kingdom impact worldwide. As followers of Jesus like you grow closer to Him and let Him shine through you in every aspect of life, we're here to equip you with ideas about how to further your growth in Christ and how to further your kingdom impact no matter where you are.
Todd (intro/outro) | 00;00;28;23 | Today, we continue our two part conversation on finding, receiving and offering ministry training online. Our special guest today is Corrie. She serves as the international director of Entrust Equipping Women. I think you'll find her tips and ideas for making good use of Zoom super practical. So here they are, Corrie and your host, Laurie.
Laurie | 00;00;57;02 | Well, Corrie, maybe you could start off by introducing yourself to us a little bit and what your role is with Entrust.
Corrie | 00;01;04;21 | Sure. My role with the trust is I'm the international director for equipping women, which is the Ministry of Entrust. And my role is really to come alongside our regional leaders and our country leaders outside of the United States.
Laurie | 00;01;22;26 | In the article that you wrote for our blog about Entrust Equipping Leaders, you wrote
Corrie | 00;01;29;17 | That.
Laurie | 00;01;30;00 | Even prior to the pandemic and trust equipping women had begun to kind of explore online training options. What were some of the factors that led you to even start looking into those directions?
Corrie | 00;01;44;22 | Mm hmm. Yes. Well, it was a number of things. We want the trainings to be accessible to all people. That's a high value for trust. And so that would include financial factors. And so when you use a facility, there's costs involved in it. So we're always asking the question, how can we keep costs as low as possible? And there's also transportation involved in going to a training which adds an additional costs for women.
Corrie | 00;02;23;16 | So we just started dreaming about what what could this look like to use an online platform? These issues are another thing that comes up for some of our women. They're not able to get visas from their country to a place where we're offering training. So the idea of a training platform where it could be very low cost for them and yet and require no visa seemed attractive.
Corrie | 00;02;59;07 | We weren't sure if it would be effective, but we wanted to try it out.
Laurie | 00;03;06;24 | And so you did. And you said you began to look into again, this is before the pandemic, before we even knew where the world was heading. You were looking into various options and platforms. You kind of landed on Zoom. What were some of the other platforms that you looked at and what were the maybe the advantages or disadvantages of the different options that you found?
Corrie | 00;03;32;01 | Web X was one of them we were considering. Teaching was another. And then Zoom. And I think I said in the article, Zoom just seemed intuitive. Technology can be a scary thing for some of us, including me. So I, you know, something intuitive that anyone could utilize, but that also had features that would work for us. We needed a whiteboard feature, a we needed a way to do breakout rooms because we do a lot of small group and partner activities.
Corrie | 00;04;10;10 | So Zoom seemed to fit the bill. I think there were others that could have worked for us. Security encryption was another factor that we looked at and and zoom although I know it's had its issues does seem to be holding up under the encryption.
Laurie | 00;04;33;29 | Well, and not only us in trust, but pretty much every ministry or every organization in the world has, as far as I can understand, landed on Zoom. I mean, that seems to be by far the predominant platform that we're all using for online meetings and trainings now.
Corrie | 00;04;51;20 | We couldn't have known that at the time, but it's interesting, you know, that that's I according to my knowledge, that does seem to be the case.
Laurie | 00;05;03;16 | You really you were ahead of your time. And little did you know and even that God knew that he kind of had you ladies beginning to explore this idea of training people online before it really became a necessity. I know you did a couple of beginning of some trainings prior to the pandemic and then it unfolded more during the pandemic.
Laurie | 00;05;26;04 | Maybe just you can describe a little of what that process was.
Corrie | 00;05;30;00 | Yes. Well, our very first training we tried was from our second module, which is called Developing a Discerning Heart, which I think is one of our most popular courses. It has less breakout and practice types of activities in it. And so we thought it might be a little more conducive for an experiment for all of us. And yet it's quite deep and emotional.
Corrie | 00;06;02;07 | There's a lot of sharing. So we also thought this could be fabulous or a complete train wreck yet. So right. So we started investigating who might be available for this first experiment and we were really up front with the women. This is experiments. We want it to be good, praise the best that this will be a good experience for all of you.
Corrie | 00;06;34;25 | But we also want to be upfront that we're we're learning right alongside you all. And so there was a learning curve for all of us as we moved into this.
Laurie | 00;06;46;21 | So the learning curve definitely went on. And as you've gone on to use online platforms and now through COVID and past even, you know, what are some things you've learned? Just just on the logistical side, before we get into the personal connection in the ministry side, logistically speaking, for example, security can often be an issue for certain people in certain countries.
Laurie | 00;07;13;03 | And what have you learned about what is or is not safe like to say out loud or there's certain things you shouldn't say out loud or writing things on a shared screen or in a chat. What are the safety levels of different aspects of Zoom in different countries or regions?
Corrie | 00;07;30;05 | We do always use the encryption and we have people out and trust that continue to monitor that. So I feel some security in what we're offering there. We generally don't record for countries that are higher risk, but we would because that can cancel the encryption. And so that would be one security measure we take. But we are told that all of the features are safe.
Corrie | 00;08;11;02 | Otherwise, in terms of breakout rooms and private chats and whiteboards. So mainly it's the recording piece that we don't do when there's a higher risk situation, just as an extra security precaution.
Laurie | 00;08;32;27 | And what about again, I'm just thinking the logistics first, when you have a lot of people and especially a lot of women, they all start talking at the same time. How do you avoid this? Like and then no one can hear anything. They all cancel each other out. You know, when you talk over each other and you kind of lose time because then it's what what you said, what do you have you learned any tricks to avoid that talking over each other and losing things?
Corrie | 00;08;59;19 | We just mute them all. That's that's all we have to do.
Laurie | 00;09;03;26 | Now, I'm I'm kidding.
Corrie | 00;09;06;12 | I mean, it it it's tricky because there's a delay sometimes, and you don't always see the cues when someone is going to speak up. Of course, that happens in person as well. And I think we handle it similarly online. You know, if if someone begins to speak up and we say, no, you go ahead, you know, and but we do try to talk about expectations and giving room for everyone's voice.
Corrie | 00;09;41;00 | We try to set the parameters ahead of time so that it's understood that we want to hear from everyone. And I think everyone is diligently watching for anyone that is going to speak up. We also use the chat regularly. There is a feature where you can raise your hand. I haven't found that super helpful, but I love how women are always encouraging each other on chat.
Corrie | 00;10;16;22 | You know, someone will be speaking about something personal and you'll see a word pop up. Like I think I gave an example in the article. We're with You are back. That's so encouraging. Thank you so there's there's kind of this sense that even though I'm not going to interrupt you right now, I'm I'm with you. I'm listening to what you were saying.
Corrie | 00;10;44;18 | Mm hmm.
Laurie | 00;10;46;02 | That's a great way to encourage that interaction without the overlapping voices. I love that. On the other hand, you mentioned muting. What have you learned, if anything, about the age old pesky Gertrude, your mute ID is? Someone started to talk and they've gone quite a while and they're still on mute. How do we ever get around that?
Corrie | 00;11;11;21 | That. That's. That's a great question. I don't know if we're ever going to get around that. I think, you know, some visual cues like time out or seemed to work well, but there's always going to be that that issue, I think.
Laurie | 00;11;30;23 | What have you learned about length of time? Like are there certain how long can a session last when somebody is sitting and looking at a screen? Does it work better for longer or shorter or what's an optimum time frame?
Corrie | 00;11;45;20 | You know, I think we're still wrestling with that question. I do believe that we've seen that a three hour time period. It's doable, but it is optimum to offer at least 115 minute break in the middle of that. Although we have had feedback from different groups that, you know, 210 minute breaks, maybe even better option because some women just can't sit as well for a long period of time.
Corrie | 00;12;17;05 | I do think there are some generational pieces to this, too. I think some of the older generation doesn't like to sit for that length of the time, and I'm sure that's a generalization. But I do find that younger people maybe this is not a good thing for younger people, but they're used to screen time, you know, and and sitting there for long periods of time.
Corrie | 00;12;43;25 | So 3 hours seems to work for us. Can we do longer? I have heard of trainings being done that are longer. We have not ventured there because we continue to get feedback that they wouldn't want to go any longer.
Laurie | 00;13;03;01 | So 3 hours overall was maybe a break, but that's per day or like what you do 3 hours in the morning and three more in the evening or the afternoon or just kind of keep it to that's enough for the day.
Corrie | 00;13;15;19 | We generally do 3 hours once a week, but we have tried a format with our fearless Filipinas. They they want to get in and out and we want to get these modules done. So we have tried two days a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays, coming in for 3 hours with them. I still don't think that's optimum because it is it provides very little time for them to really prepare well for the next module.
Corrie | 00;13;46;10 | And that's a value of ours too, is coming prepared, you know, having done the the work, the pre work prior to that time. So I, I still, I still hold to 3 hours a week is a good amount of time. But I'm also open to, you know, whatever else might show us that we could try.
Laurie | 00;14;12;04 | Also, I think you mentioned in your article just some of the the ups and downs, the pitfalls. There's certain things like even just access to to electricity and or the Internet for certain people. How have you dealt with that or other? I can't imagine. There are a whole lot of workarounds to those things.
Corrie | 00;14;36;14 | It is a big challenge for us, and it absolutely is. But I will say we have evidence that where there's a will and that God makes a way and I can use our first Philippines group as an example of that. They you know, the the Internet is just not it's very sporadic and intermittent at best there. And it's expensive.
Corrie | 00;15;08;10 | So many individuals do not have it. So there's an accessibility issue right there. But with the pandemic, we could not do an in-person with them and they wanted to move forward. So minds came together and there was a church that offered a location where they were able to get stronger Internet. And it was, you know, a collective offering.
Corrie | 00;15;39;21 | So the expense was down. And so we had women that were traveling to the church to be there for the 3 hours, and it was during the pandemic. So there were curfews where some of the women had this stay the night at the church because they couldn't go back home because the door ended, you know, before they could leave.
Corrie | 00;16;07;15 | So, I mean, talk about dedicated women. These women were just hungry and that that just blesses us to see their hunger and to see them saying, no, it's not about my comfort. I want to be equipped to, you know, equip others. And in our church. So that that is one way we've worked around it in Africa. We've struggled with the same thing and we haven't had a similar solution there, but we have done a lot more localized trainings there and that has really kind of spurred on the local leadership to get more involved and we'll use features like WhatsApp to do some of the mentoring and the shepherding from the module and even to talk
Corrie | 00;17;07;02 | about some of the questions from the module. So I think you can get creative in those places where Internet is, is an issue. But I also believe there's just going to be those places where this is not going to be the best modality to use.
Laurie | 00;17;26;00 | So when you said in Africa you did more localized trainings, what exactly does that mean?
Corrie | 00;17;30;23 | Well, in Africa right now, there is a main hub in Kenya, which is an international hub. And we have had women from all over East Africa and North Africa come to that hub for training. Well, that wasn't possible during the pandemic. And so it really forced countries within Africa that wanted to continue training women to say, what could we do here in our country?
Corrie | 00;18;03;14 | And so, you know, you some of the women that had been through the training came together under the leadership of our regional leader and started training their women. And it was it was awesome. And so now there is their own version of a hub and a national movement that's forming in these countries, because I think we were kind of forced into it.
Corrie | 00;18;32;10 | And yet also in those places, it wasn't always possible to get together during the pandemic. And so that's where Internet if Internet is an option, what do you do? Well, a lot of the women have phones, and so WhatsApp groups became more accessible to use. So, you know, you just kind of get to think about what is available to the women that you were serving and then work with it.
Laurie | 00;19;03;13 | So just to clarify against those localized trainings that you mentioned, like Zambia works in person. Actually.
Corrie | 00;19;11;05 | Yes, they.
Laurie | 00;19;11;22 | Work. Okay. But then these groups also use some additional technology, like you mentioned, WhatsApp. And I think in your article you mentioned signal, maybe other things. What are some of the uses for those types of platforms again, that the women are using?
Corrie | 00;19;29;21 | Well, those have been great globally for just connecting different cohorts that are going through a module. For one, we have for every module it's become best practices that we form a WhatsApp or a signal group depending on where where they are in the world. Sometimes one of those is more accessible and use than others and we started just giving weekly questions.
Corrie | 00;20;03;16 | I think it was one of our women in the Middle East that started with that idea and we kind of ran with it and really we use that all the time. Now for online modules. So giving weekly questions where women can respond and and it's just light hearted, you know, and post the picture of you doing something you enjoy this week or post the picture of your family.
Corrie | 00;20;30;07 | So they're just getting to know one another. And a lot of these women have never met in person. So, you know, they're getting to know women from other countries and what their daily life is like. And and then it can get deeper over time as relationships form, you know, in the online setting. But in settings like Africa, where there likely won't be as much online use, it was used more for just discussion groups.
Corrie | 00;21;04;06 | So maybe, you know, a breakout group that it's coming together and being mentored and they're looking over their lessons or let's say, our first course facilitating relational learning. They're sharing what their lesson ideas are and they're getting feedback from each other in the group. So they're still getting shepherded and mentored. It's just a little different format and it's just it's fun that some of these things we were forced into because of the pandemic.
Corrie | 00;21;40;05 | But I think it also gives us more tools now in the what we hope is post-pandemic period of time.
Laurie | 00;21;51;06 | Yes, we definitely hope that we're finished with that. So you did mention best practices and I might be crossing over now for minister from the logistics into ministry with Boss. But in your article you said we're we're developing more and more best practices for harnessing this online technology for training. And even since you wrote the article, which is over a year ago, have you discovered additional best practices since you wrote that?
Corrie | 00;22;23;02 | Oh, I think we're discovering new things all the time. You know, we're continuing to evaluate. That's the and the way we evaluate after every module and we think about what how could this be better? I think I mentioned the power of pray together. That is definitely a best practice. And dividing into pairs or threes in breakout rooms makes that timeline doable too, because it only can take 10 minutes.
Corrie | 00;23;00;22 | But typically to put them in pairs and they get to share their hard and they get to pray with others other best practices really mixing it up a lot just as we do in person. We want to change the activities and you want to do that pretty regularly every 20 minutes or so. You're changing it up. So if you're working in partners for this period of time, then maybe you move it back to a large group discussion and or you move it in to a small group of three or where they're doing something else.
Corrie | 00;23;46;02 | Or you change it up and saying, We're going to use chat for this question, especially if you think they're starting to kind of say it a little bit. You know, let's get let's rally and everyone, we want to hear your feedback on this one or that's also a really good time to throw them back and partners when you sense they're getting tired because then they're just there they have to focus and talk and and and it can just be just the thing to kind of keep that engagement up.
Corrie | 00;24;26;18 | And that's that's it. You want them to be engaged in the conversation. So I really think a variety of activities, including time for personal sharing and prayer, having that WhatsApp or signal group discussion outside of that time enriches it so much. Creating space for just some personal conversations. I think I mentioned in the article where we have a tee time where we just get go get our favorite beverage and they love that, you know, so then they show what they're drinking.
Corrie | 00;25;09;02 | And and we also really try to celebrate. And I think we've been growing in our understanding of how that can work. And there's things available to us in our celebrations that we didn't even think of initially. Like, for example, for our Philippines graduation, we brought in all the facilitators that the women have had in different modules online. And so we were all they were all together in a church, but we were all there on a screen.
Corrie | 00;25;46;19 | And we were able to play a small part in that celebration ceremony and bring in words. I think that's becoming a best practice where we can bring in others into that final time to just, you know, give a charge to give some encouragement. And it's kind of like in Hebrews, that cloud of witnesses, you know, that's like, hey, you've been a little part of your journey and now we're here to celebrate with you.
Corrie | 00;26;22;02 | We've had more leaders that have been invited in that time because you have that option. So when you're working with people all over the world, sometimes there isn't an apparently leader to invite. But when you're working with national movements like in the Philippines, it was a perfect option to invite those pastors into this process to be there. Even though they weren't there for the online module, they were there to give certificates to the women and to listen to them, as they said, what they hoped to do with what was entrusted to them in the module.
Corrie | 00;27;05;15 | So I think we're expanding our ideas on who can be involved at different points of the module and really with when you're not there in person, I think the sky's the limit.
Laurie | 00;27;22;25 | I love that. So the Philippines great ones are they are first cyber group, dare we say, like did they begin continue and and graduate entirely online without in-person contact. No.
Corrie | 00;27;42;10 | They did not. Oh they are our very first cohort in the Philippines. Went through the first three modules online and for the fourth module they just went in-person to our Asia hub and they were there for the fourth module together. And it was a wonderful thing because they had mainly experienced one another and they're different facilitators. But now they were going to an international hub where they were meeting people from other countries.
Corrie | 00;28;19;07 | It was their first time out of the Philippines, so it was really some special, you know, they're taking selfies all over the place and just enjoying a different type of learning as they were learning from other sisters and Christ from other countries. So there's the strength of being together with other nationals. There's also just the beauty and richness of coming together at an international hub where you have many countries represented.
Laurie | 00;28;51;23 | Yeah, that's so great. And that they did get some in-person contact time as well as just the screen time element of their training. You did say how interest it's true interest is so focused on the relational aspect of learning and especially equipping women. We really learn from one another and grapple with ideas and work very with one another very, very closely.
Laurie | 00;29;20;12 | So what are some other ways that you get past that screen?
Corrie | 00;29;25;15 | That's a great question. And I think the simple answer is time and attention already. I will say, even for our in-person trainings now, one one thing that is starting to happen is meeting online for one or more times ahead of time so that the women can begin to already start to get to know one another before they ever show up in person.
Corrie | 00;29;57;12 | And so that would be something that was pulled from our online. And now is being applied back to the in-person trainings that we do. But a lot of what we would do in-person is what we would do in an online setting. We just have to be intentional about it and we have to allow time to play its course because relationships take time.
Corrie | 00;30;26;17 | But it is amazing to me how many women have never met but have such a love for others in their group. And that has come through allowing space for personal sharing. And it's time through prayer together. Gather some of the partner prayer that we talked about. It has come through deep sharing over God's Word, which is a central part of every module that we do an interest.
Corrie | 00;31;00;09 | And and I think that's key. Laurie It's really the, the deepest heart connection is over our unity in Christ and over his word, which unites us. And so whether we're doing that in person or we're doing that online, God doesn't. He shows up and as we're interacting with his word, he starts uniting our hearts.
Laurie | 00;31;31;15 | You mentioned that in your article again, that it was really amazing that people that women could actually work through the material and learn the material from the comfort of their own homes online.
Corrie | 00;31;44;13 | Do you think.
Laurie | 00;31;45;29 | Do we concentrate as well when we're sitting in our own home, in our living room or our kitchen or our desk, as when we're all in a big meeting room around a table with one another?
Corrie | 00;31;59;14 | It's not a leading question.
Laurie | 00;32;01;17 | So it's a leading question. That's also a yes, no question. So it's a very bad trust question on two levels to apologize for that, maybe I can rephrase that. What impact does online training have on our concentration in our own home on screen as opposed to together in a in the same physical space?
Corrie | 00;32;23;16 | Well, there there are distractions at a home that you just can't get around. But I think I mentioned in the article, you know, the dog that starts howling in the background or the toddler that comes walking in. I'm praying our four year old doesn't walk in at any moment because I gave him instructions not to get. Yeah, right.
Corrie | 00;32;50;07 | And and I think there's other temptations, like you have an email right there and maybe your online days that you think, well, someone just sent me an email or know there's a phone in and you see attacks come in. So yes, yes, for sure there are distractions. But I think you can also get so engaged in the content that you want to be a part of what is happening there.
Corrie | 00;33;25;29 | And and you go with the flow. You know, we do set up our trainings by saying, you know, there's noise in the background, just mute yourself. And unless you're facilitating, you know, that's that's an option available to you. But I do find largely that women want to be present and they want to be heard and they also want to hear others.
Corrie | 00;33;53;00 | And so that takes attentiveness. And I do think in general, although I'm not monitoring what they're doing on the phone. So, you know, I do find their engage, you know, they're looking they're they're they're nodding there. They're there. And I'm sure their attention goes up and down like all of ours. But they when you want to be somewhere and you're engaged in the topic, you will allow yourself to to focus despite the distractions.
Laurie | 00;34;26;25 | In your article, you mentioned that we have started to do hybrid modules. Maybe you could explain a little bit more what what that is and what that looks like.
Corrie | 00;34;35;23 | I find this so exciting actually, because I think it pulls some of the best of both spheres of learning. We've had a camp that's always been firmly in the we have to stay in person. Yeah. Then we have slowly convinced others that, hey, maybe this online thing could work. Well, this would be a hybrid of both of those, so it would be starting with an online portion for say, nine weeks and then concluding by coming together for a long weekend, usually three days in person.
Corrie | 00;35;20;02 | So it brings some of the best together in terms of you've already developed relations just online with those people, but you've also done a lot of the content and then they're excited to see one another in-person. And you know, they've already done a lot of the bonding online. It also makes it much more accessible as we only need a training center meals for three days versus a full intense, which for us is usually six or seven days.
Corrie | 00;35;59;02 | But this it's it's exciting. I know that there's a hybrid going on in Ecuador right now as we speak in Spanish. And I just got off a call just today with our Middle East team, and they were sharing how they had experimented this year with the in-person hub. They had two modules that were there for the entire week, and then they had one module that did the hybrid approach and just joined that group.
Corrie | 00;36;34;21 | It was our third module, Discovery Bible study. They joined that group for just the last three days and they said it was just awesome because it brought energy to the whole group. All of a sudden more people are showing up at the party, you know, so they are talking in the in the Middle East about how it is increasingly hard for women to get off or 6 to 7 days of work or away from their families.
Corrie | 00;37;05;10 | You know, women have a lot of commitments, so they are really wrestling with maybe going to and a whole hybrid approach.
Laurie | 00;37;13;15 | One other question. I was you said in your article, God is even allowing a trust to become a resource for partnering organizations who need an understand a little bit more about how this training works online. Are you able to name any of those organizations or can you tell us anything about how is it trust serving as a resource to other ministries?
Corrie | 00;37;37;22 | Early on in the pandemic, there were organizations that had never tried it in online form before, and we certainly weren't experts at it. And I don't know that we can say we are now, but we're further down the road and we were further down the road and some of those organizations that were looking into it. So I don't know that I remember specific names of organizations that we worked with, but it's like the word got out and we already partner with so many organizations as it is.
Corrie | 00;38;16;21 | So when one is talking and they hear, well, interest is doing this, we were getting requests more and can we learn what you're doing? Can we learn about best practices? And so that's when we started forming our best practices just in a document to be able to share with these. That's when we did, we created just some simple Zoom trainings so that we could share, Hey, this is what we're learning.
Corrie | 00;38;50;06 | You know, we're not the experts, but this is what we've learned so far in what's working for us. And so, yeah, it was a privilege to be able to pass along what we have learned.
Laurie | 00;39;03;05 | We've talked a lot about how good it all can be, what are the downsides or the pitfalls to online training?
Corrie | 00;39;12;18 | You know, we have had those those moments where you think this is a train wreck, you know, and where I can think of a few times with the Philippines in particular, where Internet is such a challenge, where we have, you know, someone dropped off a call and then all of a sudden this person, we couldn't hear where all of a sudden there's so many distractions that you're you're just you might as well laugh or cry, you know?
Corrie | 00;39;45;25 | Yeah. Like all learning as I think the the pitfall would be to assume that it can't happen when things go awry because the Philippines is just a really good example of how you kind of dust yourself off and you move on, you know, and you say, that didn't work well, but you then get testimonies for how God's working in the lives of these women and how that how they're excited about the material.
Corrie | 00;40;27;15 | And so we can keep pressing on here. So, so not giving up when things don't go as planned they want. There's always going to be some kind of issue. We've had women that want to leave a breakout room and they leave the call completely. And also dropping off looks that happens, you know, at least once every every module we do.
Corrie | 00;40;56;17 | So some things, things will happen. But just moving on and flexing with it, I think is key. I think bringing in those person all elements is critical. So if in the interests of being fast as many Americans are excited about fast getting things done, being quick about it, it would be easy to say, well, let's cut out this social topic and what we don't need this prayer time or we don't need to do this.
Corrie | 00;41;39;07 | And yet that is really, I think, the glue that makes it work. All those relational pieces that are kind of woven in to the core content. So not trying to be fast and really just making sure those core elements are still there and those opportunities to relate.
Laurie | 00;42;08;18 | I'm wondering if you have any scenarios that just really are not a good idea to do online.
Corrie | 00;42;14;15 | I think we would have with each module that we've added, we've thought we might find that thing. Yeah, just discovery Bible study, for example, our third module. You know, one of the practices is you have to give a message and we thought, how is that going to work online giving? They have to give a 15 minute talk about a biblical passage.
Corrie | 00;42;45;04 | And so we thought that might be a disaster, but it wasn't God. God use that. So I will say there might be those things where it will be a train wreck and you do need to have semi strong internet to have an effective learning experience. But God has worked in every module that we've added online and so I guess I have a high degree of confidence that you can do most learning online.
Corrie | 00;43;25;19 | You're going to miss some components, perhaps. You certainly can't go and have lunch with those individuals afterwards, which is a loss because you want to, as you're getting to know them. But I do think that learning can take place. I will say in some countries we have more women that don't have computers. And, you know, in America, we think everybody has a computer that's just so accessible and it's just not true in many of the countries we're working in.
Corrie | 00;44;03;09 | So initially we had said we would not allow a woman to be on the phone and I would still say a computer is a best practice I hold to that. But we have women in countries in Asia that would have never had that opportunity to be equipped if we had been legalistic and held to that. And they, they learned and they've multiplied.
Corrie | 00;44;34;23 | So yeah, they could see everyone on their screen at the same time. It was a modality that maybe wasn't as sharp for learning and yet God used that for them because that was what they had.
Laurie | 00;44;51;02 | Use what you have. And if the only thing available is a phone. Okay? Yes. God is bigger than our technology aggressiveness. Yes, well, we're nearly at the end of our time. But has anything else come to your mind that you would like to mention about training and equipping Christian leaders online?
Corrie | 00;45;12;22 | Let me just don't don't be afraid of a skeptics in your organization, because I think people are growing more comfortable in utilizing technologies. But there are a number of people that it's just not their thing to do. And so, you know, treading gently in trying to bring in some more innovation with online options, but also not letting people, the naysayers about it, you know, and letting it try something out and just saying, let's try this and then I'll wait.
Corrie | 00;46;01;00 | And and so there they know those people that are a little fearful about using certain new technologies that this is not something we have to commit to forever. And blood, you know. But but but but let's try, you know, let's see what God can do with that. And then let's have let's see, evaluate what more it could do.
Laurie | 00;46;28;03 | And God can use any technology for his good purposes. It was great to visit with Corrie this week from Entrust. Go back and listen to the previous podcast episode that we put out with Dr. Timothy Westbrook of Harding University, also about equipping leaders online. And then you can read both articles one by Dr. Westbrook and one by Corrie on our Web site at Entrus4.org under resources.
Laurie | 00;46;56;07 | Next week, my guest will be Anne Graham Lotz and we will be talking about prayer. I look forward to seeing you then. Thanks for listening.
Todd (intro/outro) | 00;47;05;28 | You've been listening to Entrust Equipping Leaders, a podcast resource from your friends at Entrust Today. Today's guest, Corrie is the international director of Entrust Equipping Women. Join us next time, January 20th, for a very inspiring conversation with Anne Graham Lotz about prayer. Be ready to be challenged to the very core about your prayer life.
Links
Corrie's Equipping Christian Leaders article https://www.entrust4.org/post/online-training-a-passing-phase-or-here-to-stay
Entrust online training opportunities https://www.entrust4.org/equippingwomenregisteronline
Transcript
Speaker Name | Start Time | Text
Todd (intro/outro) | 00;00;01;20 | Happy New Year from your friends at Entrust. What are you trusting God for this year? We trust this will be a year of expanded kingdom impact worldwide. As followers of Jesus like you grow closer to Him and let Him shine through you in every aspect of life, we're here to equip you with ideas about how to further your growth in Christ and how to further your kingdom impact no matter where you are.
Todd (intro/outro) | 00;00;28;23 | Today, we continue our two part conversation on finding, receiving and offering ministry training online. Our special guest today is Corrie. She serves as the international director of Entrust Equipping Women. I think you'll find her tips and ideas for making good use of Zoom super practical. So here they are, Corrie and your host, Laurie.
Laurie | 00;00;57;02 | Well, Corrie, maybe you could start off by introducing yourself to us a little bit and what your role is with Entrust.
Corrie | 00;01;04;21 | Sure. My role with the trust is I'm the international director for equipping women, which is the Ministry of Entrust. And my role is really to come alongside our regional leaders and our country leaders outside of the United States.
Laurie | 00;01;22;26 | In the article that you wrote for our blog about Entrust Equipping Leaders, you wrote
Corrie | 00;01;29;17 | That.
Laurie | 00;01;30;00 | Even prior to the pandemic and trust equipping women had begun to kind of explore online training options. What were some of the factors that led you to even start looking into those directions?
Corrie | 00;01;44;22 | Mm hmm. Yes. Well, it was a number of things. We want the trainings to be accessible to all people. That's a high value for trust. And so that would include financial factors. And so when you use a facility, there's costs involved in it. So we're always asking the question, how can we keep costs as low as possible? And there's also transportation involved in going to a training which adds an additional costs for women.
Corrie | 00;02;23;16 | So we just started dreaming about what what could this look like to use an online platform? These issues are another thing that comes up for some of our women. They're not able to get visas from their country to a place where we're offering training. So the idea of a training platform where it could be very low cost for them and yet and require no visa seemed attractive.
Corrie | 00;02;59;07 | We weren't sure if it would be effective, but we wanted to try it out.
Laurie | 00;03;06;24 | And so you did. And you said you began to look into again, this is before the pandemic, before we even knew where the world was heading. You were looking into various options and platforms. You kind of landed on Zoom. What were some of the other platforms that you looked at and what were the maybe the advantages or disadvantages of the different options that you found?
Corrie | 00;03;32;01 | Web X was one of them we were considering. Teaching was another. And then Zoom. And I think I said in the article, Zoom just seemed intuitive. Technology can be a scary thing for some of us, including me. So I, you know, something intuitive that anyone could utilize, but that also had features that would work for us. We needed a whiteboard feature, a we needed a way to do breakout rooms because we do a lot of small group and partner activities.
Corrie | 00;04;10;10 | So Zoom seemed to fit the bill. I think there were others that could have worked for us. Security encryption was another factor that we looked at and and zoom although I know it's had its issues does seem to be holding up under the encryption.
Laurie | 00;04;33;29 | Well, and not only us in trust, but pretty much every ministry or every organization in the world has, as far as I can understand, landed on Zoom. I mean, that seems to be by far the predominant platform that we're all using for online meetings and trainings now.
Corrie | 00;04;51;20 | We couldn't have known that at the time, but it's interesting, you know, that that's I according to my knowledge, that does seem to be the case.
Laurie | 00;05;03;16 | You really you were ahead of your time. And little did you know and even that God knew that he kind of had you ladies beginning to explore this idea of training people online before it really became a necessity. I know you did a couple of beginning of some trainings prior to the pandemic and then it unfolded more during the pandemic.
Laurie | 00;05;26;04 | Maybe just you can describe a little of what that process was.
Corrie | 00;05;30;00 | Yes. Well, our very first training we tried was from our second module, which is called Developing a Discerning Heart, which I think is one of our most popular courses. It has less breakout and practice types of activities in it. And so we thought it might be a little more conducive for an experiment for all of us. And yet it's quite deep and emotional.
Corrie | 00;06;02;07 | There's a lot of sharing. So we also thought this could be fabulous or a complete train wreck yet. So right. So we started investigating who might be available for this first experiment and we were really up front with the women. This is experiments. We want it to be good, praise the best that this will be a good experience for all of you.
Corrie | 00;06;34;25 | But we also want to be upfront that we're we're learning right alongside you all. And so there was a learning curve for all of us as we moved into this.
Laurie | 00;06;46;21 | So the learning curve definitely went on. And as you've gone on to use online platforms and now through COVID and past even, you know, what are some things you've learned? Just just on the logistical side, before we get into the personal connection in the ministry side, logistically speaking, for example, security can often be an issue for certain people in certain countries.
Laurie | 00;07;13;03 | And what have you learned about what is or is not safe like to say out loud or there's certain things you shouldn't say out loud or writing things on a shared screen or in a chat. What are the safety levels of different aspects of Zoom in different countries or regions?
Corrie | 00;07;30;05 | We do always use the encryption and we have people out and trust that continue to monitor that. So I feel some security in what we're offering there. We generally don't record for countries that are higher risk, but we would because that can cancel the encryption. And so that would be one security measure we take. But we are told that all of the features are safe.
Corrie | 00;08;11;02 | Otherwise, in terms of breakout rooms and private chats and whiteboards. So mainly it's the recording piece that we don't do when there's a higher risk situation, just as an extra security precaution.
Laurie | 00;08;32;27 | And what about again, I'm just thinking the logistics first, when you have a lot of people and especially a lot of women, they all start talking at the same time. How do you avoid this? Like and then no one can hear anything. They all cancel each other out. You know, when you talk over each other and you kind of lose time because then it's what what you said, what do you have you learned any tricks to avoid that talking over each other and losing things?
Corrie | 00;08;59;19 | We just mute them all. That's that's all we have to do.
Laurie | 00;09;03;26 | Now, I'm I'm kidding.
Corrie | 00;09;06;12 | I mean, it it it's tricky because there's a delay sometimes, and you don't always see the cues when someone is going to speak up. Of course, that happens in person as well. And I think we handle it similarly online. You know, if if someone begins to speak up and we say, no, you go ahead, you know, and but we do try to talk about expectations and giving room for everyone's voice.
Corrie | 00;09;41;00 | We try to set the parameters ahead of time so that it's understood that we want to hear from everyone. And I think everyone is diligently watching for anyone that is going to speak up. We also use the chat regularly. There is a feature where you can raise your hand. I haven't found that super helpful, but I love how women are always encouraging each other on chat.
Corrie | 00;10;16;22 | You know, someone will be speaking about something personal and you'll see a word pop up. Like I think I gave an example in the article. We're with You are back. That's so encouraging. Thank you so there's there's kind of this sense that even though I'm not going to interrupt you right now, I'm I'm with you. I'm listening to what you were saying.
Corrie | 00;10;44;18 | Mm hmm.
Laurie | 00;10;46;02 | That's a great way to encourage that interaction without the overlapping voices. I love that. On the other hand, you mentioned muting. What have you learned, if anything, about the age old pesky Gertrude, your mute ID is? Someone started to talk and they've gone quite a while and they're still on mute. How do we ever get around that?
Corrie | 00;11;11;21 | That. That's. That's a great question. I don't know if we're ever going to get around that. I think, you know, some visual cues like time out or seemed to work well, but there's always going to be that that issue, I think.
Laurie | 00;11;30;23 | What have you learned about length of time? Like are there certain how long can a session last when somebody is sitting and looking at a screen? Does it work better for longer or shorter or what's an optimum time frame?
Corrie | 00;11;45;20 | You know, I think we're still wrestling with that question. I do believe that we've seen that a three hour time period. It's doable, but it is optimum to offer at least 115 minute break in the middle of that. Although we have had feedback from different groups that, you know, 210 minute breaks, maybe even better option because some women just can't sit as well for a long period of time.
Corrie | 00;12;17;05 | I do think there are some generational pieces to this, too. I think some of the older generation doesn't like to sit for that length of the time, and I'm sure that's a generalization. But I do find that younger people maybe this is not a good thing for younger people, but they're used to screen time, you know, and and sitting there for long periods of time.
Corrie | 00;12;43;25 | So 3 hours seems to work for us. Can we do longer? I have heard of trainings being done that are longer. We have not ventured there because we continue to get feedback that they wouldn't want to go any longer.
Laurie | 00;13;03;01 | So 3 hours overall was maybe a break, but that's per day or like what you do 3 hours in the morning and three more in the evening or the afternoon or just kind of keep it to that's enough for the day.
Corrie | 00;13;15;19 | We generally do 3 hours once a week, but we have tried a format with our fearless Filipinas. They they want to get in and out and we want to get these modules done. So we have tried two days a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays, coming in for 3 hours with them. I still don't think that's optimum because it is it provides very little time for them to really prepare well for the next module.
Corrie | 00;13;46;10 | And that's a value of ours too, is coming prepared, you know, having done the the work, the pre work prior to that time. So I, I still, I still hold to 3 hours a week is a good amount of time. But I'm also open to, you know, whatever else might show us that we could try.
Laurie | 00;14;12;04 | Also, I think you mentioned in your article just some of the the ups and downs, the pitfalls. There's certain things like even just access to to electricity and or the Internet for certain people. How have you dealt with that or other? I can't imagine. There are a whole lot of workarounds to those things.
Corrie | 00;14;36;14 | It is a big challenge for us, and it absolutely is. But I will say we have evidence that where there's a will and that God makes a way and I can use our first Philippines group as an example of that. They you know, the the Internet is just not it's very sporadic and intermittent at best there. And it's expensive.
Corrie | 00;15;08;10 | So many individuals do not have it. So there's an accessibility issue right there. But with the pandemic, we could not do an in-person with them and they wanted to move forward. So minds came together and there was a church that offered a location where they were able to get stronger Internet. And it was, you know, a collective offering.
Corrie | 00;15;39;21 | So the expense was down. And so we had women that were traveling to the church to be there for the 3 hours, and it was during the pandemic. So there were curfews where some of the women had this stay the night at the church because they couldn't go back home because the door ended, you know, before they could leave.
Corrie | 00;16;07;15 | So, I mean, talk about dedicated women. These women were just hungry and that that just blesses us to see their hunger and to see them saying, no, it's not about my comfort. I want to be equipped to, you know, equip others. And in our church. So that that is one way we've worked around it in Africa. We've struggled with the same thing and we haven't had a similar solution there, but we have done a lot more localized trainings there and that has really kind of spurred on the local leadership to get more involved and we'll use features like WhatsApp to do some of the mentoring and the shepherding from the module and even to talk
Corrie | 00;17;07;02 | about some of the questions from the module. So I think you can get creative in those places where Internet is, is an issue. But I also believe there's just going to be those places where this is not going to be the best modality to use.
Laurie | 00;17;26;00 | So when you said in Africa you did more localized trainings, what exactly does that mean?
Corrie | 00;17;30;23 | Well, in Africa right now, there is a main hub in Kenya, which is an international hub. And we have had women from all over East Africa and North Africa come to that hub for training. Well, that wasn't possible during the pandemic. And so it really forced countries within Africa that wanted to continue training women to say, what could we do here in our country?
Corrie | 00;18;03;14 | And so, you know, you some of the women that had been through the training came together under the leadership of our regional leader and started training their women. And it was it was awesome. And so now there is their own version of a hub and a national movement that's forming in these countries, because I think we were kind of forced into it.
Corrie | 00;18;32;10 | And yet also in those places, it wasn't always possible to get together during the pandemic. And so that's where Internet if Internet is an option, what do you do? Well, a lot of the women have phones, and so WhatsApp groups became more accessible to use. So, you know, you just kind of get to think about what is available to the women that you were serving and then work with it.
Laurie | 00;19;03;13 | So just to clarify against those localized trainings that you mentioned, like Zambia works in person. Actually.
Corrie | 00;19;11;05 | Yes, they.
Laurie | 00;19;11;22 | Work. Okay. But then these groups also use some additional technology, like you mentioned, WhatsApp. And I think in your article you mentioned signal, maybe other things. What are some of the uses for those types of platforms again, that the women are using?
Corrie | 00;19;29;21 | Well, those have been great globally for just connecting different cohorts that are going through a module. For one, we have for every module it's become best practices that we form a WhatsApp or a signal group depending on where where they are in the world. Sometimes one of those is more accessible and use than others and we started just giving weekly questions.
Corrie | 00;20;03;16 | I think it was one of our women in the Middle East that started with that idea and we kind of ran with it and really we use that all the time. Now for online modules. So giving weekly questions where women can respond and and it's just light hearted, you know, and post the picture of you doing something you enjoy this week or post the picture of your family.
Corrie | 00;20;30;07 | So they're just getting to know one another. And a lot of these women have never met in person. So, you know, they're getting to know women from other countries and what their daily life is like. And and then it can get deeper over time as relationships form, you know, in the online setting. But in settings like Africa, where there likely won't be as much online use, it was used more for just discussion groups.
Corrie | 00;21;04;06 | So maybe, you know, a breakout group that it's coming together and being mentored and they're looking over their lessons or let's say, our first course facilitating relational learning. They're sharing what their lesson ideas are and they're getting feedback from each other in the group. So they're still getting shepherded and mentored. It's just a little different format and it's just it's fun that some of these things we were forced into because of the pandemic.
Corrie | 00;21;40;05 | But I think it also gives us more tools now in the what we hope is post-pandemic period of time.
Laurie | 00;21;51;06 | Yes, we definitely hope that we're finished with that. So you did mention best practices and I might be crossing over now for minister from the logistics into ministry with Boss. But in your article you said we're we're developing more and more best practices for harnessing this online technology for training. And even since you wrote the article, which is over a year ago, have you discovered additional best practices since you wrote that?
Corrie | 00;22;23;02 | Oh, I think we're discovering new things all the time. You know, we're continuing to evaluate. That's the and the way we evaluate after every module and we think about what how could this be better? I think I mentioned the power of pray together. That is definitely a best practice. And dividing into pairs or threes in breakout rooms makes that timeline doable too, because it only can take 10 minutes.
Corrie | 00;23;00;22 | But typically to put them in pairs and they get to share their hard and they get to pray with others other best practices really mixing it up a lot just as we do in person. We want to change the activities and you want to do that pretty regularly every 20 minutes or so. You're changing it up. So if you're working in partners for this period of time, then maybe you move it back to a large group discussion and or you move it in to a small group of three or where they're doing something else.
Corrie | 00;23;46;02 | Or you change it up and saying, We're going to use chat for this question, especially if you think they're starting to kind of say it a little bit. You know, let's get let's rally and everyone, we want to hear your feedback on this one or that's also a really good time to throw them back and partners when you sense they're getting tired because then they're just there they have to focus and talk and and and it can just be just the thing to kind of keep that engagement up.
Corrie | 00;24;26;18 | And that's that's it. You want them to be engaged in the conversation. So I really think a variety of activities, including time for personal sharing and prayer, having that WhatsApp or signal group discussion outside of that time enriches it so much. Creating space for just some personal conversations. I think I mentioned in the article where we have a tee time where we just get go get our favorite beverage and they love that, you know, so then they show what they're drinking.
Corrie | 00;25;09;02 | And and we also really try to celebrate. And I think we've been growing in our understanding of how that can work. And there's things available to us in our celebrations that we didn't even think of initially. Like, for example, for our Philippines graduation, we brought in all the facilitators that the women have had in different modules online. And so we were all they were all together in a church, but we were all there on a screen.
Corrie | 00;25;46;19 | And we were able to play a small part in that celebration ceremony and bring in words. I think that's becoming a best practice where we can bring in others into that final time to just, you know, give a charge to give some encouragement. And it's kind of like in Hebrews, that cloud of witnesses, you know, that's like, hey, you've been a little part of your journey and now we're here to celebrate with you.
Corrie | 00;26;22;02 | We've had more leaders that have been invited in that time because you have that option. So when you're working with people all over the world, sometimes there isn't an apparently leader to invite. But when you're working with national movements like in the Philippines, it was a perfect option to invite those pastors into this process to be there. Even though they weren't there for the online module, they were there to give certificates to the women and to listen to them, as they said, what they hoped to do with what was entrusted to them in the module.
Corrie | 00;27;05;15 | So I think we're expanding our ideas on who can be involved at different points of the module and really with when you're not there in person, I think the sky's the limit.
Laurie | 00;27;22;25 | I love that. So the Philippines great ones are they are first cyber group, dare we say, like did they begin continue and and graduate entirely online without in-person contact. No.
Corrie | 00;27;42;10 | They did not. Oh they are our very first cohort in the Philippines. Went through the first three modules online and for the fourth module they just went in-person to our Asia hub and they were there for the fourth module together. And it was a wonderful thing because they had mainly experienced one another and they're different facilitators. But now they were going to an international hub where they were meeting people from other countries.
Corrie | 00;28;19;07 | It was their first time out of the Philippines, so it was really some special, you know, they're taking selfies all over the place and just enjoying a different type of learning as they were learning from other sisters and Christ from other countries. So there's the strength of being together with other nationals. There's also just the beauty and richness of coming together at an international hub where you have many countries represented.
Laurie | 00;28;51;23 | Yeah, that's so great. And that they did get some in-person contact time as well as just the screen time element of their training. You did say how interest it's true interest is so focused on the relational aspect of learning and especially equipping women. We really learn from one another and grapple with ideas and work very with one another very, very closely.
Laurie | 00;29;20;12 | So what are some other ways that you get past that screen?
Corrie | 00;29;25;15 | That's a great question. And I think the simple answer is time and attention already. I will say, even for our in-person trainings now, one one thing that is starting to happen is meeting online for one or more times ahead of time so that the women can begin to already start to get to know one another before they ever show up in person.
Corrie | 00;29;57;12 | And so that would be something that was pulled from our online. And now is being applied back to the in-person trainings that we do. But a lot of what we would do in-person is what we would do in an online setting. We just have to be intentional about it and we have to allow time to play its course because relationships take time.
Corrie | 00;30;26;17 | But it is amazing to me how many women have never met but have such a love for others in their group. And that has come through allowing space for personal sharing. And it's time through prayer together. Gather some of the partner prayer that we talked about. It has come through deep sharing over God's Word, which is a central part of every module that we do an interest.
Corrie | 00;31;00;09 | And and I think that's key. Laurie It's really the, the deepest heart connection is over our unity in Christ and over his word, which unites us. And so whether we're doing that in person or we're doing that online, God doesn't. He shows up and as we're interacting with his word, he starts uniting our hearts.
Laurie | 00;31;31;15 | You mentioned that in your article again, that it was really amazing that people that women could actually work through the material and learn the material from the comfort of their own homes online.
Corrie | 00;31;44;13 | Do you think.
Laurie | 00;31;45;29 | Do we concentrate as well when we're sitting in our own home, in our living room or our kitchen or our desk, as when we're all in a big meeting room around a table with one another?
Corrie | 00;31;59;14 | It's not a leading question.
Laurie | 00;32;01;17 | So it's a leading question. That's also a yes, no question. So it's a very bad trust question on two levels to apologize for that, maybe I can rephrase that. What impact does online training have on our concentration in our own home on screen as opposed to together in a in the same physical space?
Corrie | 00;32;23;16 | Well, there there are distractions at a home that you just can't get around. But I think I mentioned in the article, you know, the dog that starts howling in the background or the toddler that comes walking in. I'm praying our four year old doesn't walk in at any moment because I gave him instructions not to get. Yeah, right.
Corrie | 00;32;50;07 | And and I think there's other temptations, like you have an email right there and maybe your online days that you think, well, someone just sent me an email or know there's a phone in and you see attacks come in. So yes, yes, for sure there are distractions. But I think you can also get so engaged in the content that you want to be a part of what is happening there.
Corrie | 00;33;25;29 | And and you go with the flow. You know, we do set up our trainings by saying, you know, there's noise in the background, just mute yourself. And unless you're facilitating, you know, that's that's an option available to you. But I do find largely that women want to be present and they want to be heard and they also want to hear others.
Corrie | 00;33;53;00 | And so that takes attentiveness. And I do think in general, although I'm not monitoring what they're doing on the phone. So, you know, I do find their engage, you know, they're looking they're they're they're nodding there. They're there. And I'm sure their attention goes up and down like all of ours. But they when you want to be somewhere and you're engaged in the topic, you will allow yourself to to focus despite the distractions.
Laurie | 00;34;26;25 | In your article, you mentioned that we have started to do hybrid modules. Maybe you could explain a little bit more what what that is and what that looks like.
Corrie | 00;34;35;23 | I find this so exciting actually, because I think it pulls some of the best of both spheres of learning. We've had a camp that's always been firmly in the we have to stay in person. Yeah. Then we have slowly convinced others that, hey, maybe this online thing could work. Well, this would be a hybrid of both of those, so it would be starting with an online portion for say, nine weeks and then concluding by coming together for a long weekend, usually three days in person.
Corrie | 00;35;20;02 | So it brings some of the best together in terms of you've already developed relations just online with those people, but you've also done a lot of the content and then they're excited to see one another in-person. And you know, they've already done a lot of the bonding online. It also makes it much more accessible as we only need a training center meals for three days versus a full intense, which for us is usually six or seven days.
Corrie | 00;35;59;02 | But this it's it's exciting. I know that there's a hybrid going on in Ecuador right now as we speak in Spanish. And I just got off a call just today with our Middle East team, and they were sharing how they had experimented this year with the in-person hub. They had two modules that were there for the entire week, and then they had one module that did the hybrid approach and just joined that group.
Corrie | 00;36;34;21 | It was our third module, Discovery Bible study. They joined that group for just the last three days and they said it was just awesome because it brought energy to the whole group. All of a sudden more people are showing up at the party, you know, so they are talking in the in the Middle East about how it is increasingly hard for women to get off or 6 to 7 days of work or away from their families.
Corrie | 00;37;05;10 | You know, women have a lot of commitments, so they are really wrestling with maybe going to and a whole hybrid approach.
Laurie | 00;37;13;15 | One other question. I was you said in your article, God is even allowing a trust to become a resource for partnering organizations who need an understand a little bit more about how this training works online. Are you able to name any of those organizations or can you tell us anything about how is it trust serving as a resource to other ministries?
Corrie | 00;37;37;22 | Early on in the pandemic, there were organizations that had never tried it in online form before, and we certainly weren't experts at it. And I don't know that we can say we are now, but we're further down the road and we were further down the road and some of those organizations that were looking into it. So I don't know that I remember specific names of organizations that we worked with, but it's like the word got out and we already partner with so many organizations as it is.
Corrie | 00;38;16;21 | So when one is talking and they hear, well, interest is doing this, we were getting requests more and can we learn what you're doing? Can we learn about best practices? And so that's when we started forming our best practices just in a document to be able to share with these. That's when we did, we created just some simple Zoom trainings so that we could share, Hey, this is what we're learning.
Corrie | 00;38;50;06 | You know, we're not the experts, but this is what we've learned so far in what's working for us. And so, yeah, it was a privilege to be able to pass along what we have learned.
Laurie | 00;39;03;05 | We've talked a lot about how good it all can be, what are the downsides or the pitfalls to online training?
Corrie | 00;39;12;18 | You know, we have had those those moments where you think this is a train wreck, you know, and where I can think of a few times with the Philippines in particular, where Internet is such a challenge, where we have, you know, someone dropped off a call and then all of a sudden this person, we couldn't hear where all of a sudden there's so many distractions that you're you're just you might as well laugh or cry, you know?
Corrie | 00;39;45;25 | Yeah. Like all learning as I think the the pitfall would be to assume that it can't happen when things go awry because the Philippines is just a really good example of how you kind of dust yourself off and you move on, you know, and you say, that didn't work well, but you then get testimonies for how God's working in the lives of these women and how that how they're excited about the material.
Corrie | 00;40;27;15 | And so we can keep pressing on here. So, so not giving up when things don't go as planned they want. There's always going to be some kind of issue. We've had women that want to leave a breakout room and they leave the call completely. And also dropping off looks that happens, you know, at least once every every module we do.
Corrie | 00;40;56;17 | So some things, things will happen. But just moving on and flexing with it, I think is key. I think bringing in those person all elements is critical. So if in the interests of being fast as many Americans are excited about fast getting things done, being quick about it, it would be easy to say, well, let's cut out this social topic and what we don't need this prayer time or we don't need to do this.
Corrie | 00;41;39;07 | And yet that is really, I think, the glue that makes it work. All those relational pieces that are kind of woven in to the core content. So not trying to be fast and really just making sure those core elements are still there and those opportunities to relate.
Laurie | 00;42;08;18 | I'm wondering if you have any scenarios that just really are not a good idea to do online.
Corrie | 00;42;14;15 | I think we would have with each module that we've added, we've thought we might find that thing. Yeah, just discovery Bible study, for example, our third module. You know, one of the practices is you have to give a message and we thought, how is that going to work online giving? They have to give a 15 minute talk about a biblical passage.
Corrie | 00;42;45;04 | And so we thought that might be a disaster, but it wasn't God. God use that. So I will say there might be those things where it will be a train wreck and you do need to have semi strong internet to have an effective learning experience. But God has worked in every module that we've added online and so I guess I have a high degree of confidence that you can do most learning online.
Corrie | 00;43;25;19 | You're going to miss some components, perhaps. You certainly can't go and have lunch with those individuals afterwards, which is a loss because you want to, as you're getting to know them. But I do think that learning can take place. I will say in some countries we have more women that don't have computers. And, you know, in America, we think everybody has a computer that's just so accessible and it's just not true in many of the countries we're working in.
Corrie | 00;44;03;09 | So initially we had said we would not allow a woman to be on the phone and I would still say a computer is a best practice I hold to that. But we have women in countries in Asia that would have never had that opportunity to be equipped if we had been legalistic and held to that. And they, they learned and they've multiplied.
Corrie | 00;44;34;23 | So yeah, they could see everyone on their screen at the same time. It was a modality that maybe wasn't as sharp for learning and yet God used that for them because that was what they had.
Laurie | 00;44;51;02 | Use what you have. And if the only thing available is a phone. Okay? Yes. God is bigger than our technology aggressiveness. Yes, well, we're nearly at the end of our time. But has anything else come to your mind that you would like to mention about training and equipping Christian leaders online?
Corrie | 00;45;12;22 | Let me just don't don't be afraid of a skeptics in your organization, because I think people are growing more comfortable in utilizing technologies. But there are a number of people that it's just not their thing to do. And so, you know, treading gently in trying to bring in some more innovation with online options, but also not letting people, the naysayers about it, you know, and letting it try something out and just saying, let's try this and then I'll wait.
Corrie | 00;46;01;00 | And and so there they know those people that are a little fearful about using certain new technologies that this is not something we have to commit to forever. And blood, you know. But but but but let's try, you know, let's see what God can do with that. And then let's have let's see, evaluate what more it could do.
Laurie | 00;46;28;03 | And God can use any technology for his good purposes. It was great to visit with Corrie this week from Entrust. Go back and listen to the previous podcast episode that we put out with Dr. Timothy Westbrook of Harding University, also about equipping leaders online. And then you can read both articles one by Dr. Westbrook and one by Corrie on our Web site at Entrus4.org under resources.
Laurie | 00;46;56;07 | Next week, my guest will be Anne Graham Lotz and we will be talking about prayer. I look forward to seeing you then. Thanks for listening.
Todd (intro/outro) | 00;47;05;28 | You've been listening to Entrust Equipping Leaders, a podcast resource from your friends at Entrust Today. Today's guest, Corrie is the international director of Entrust Equipping Women. Join us next time, January 20th, for a very inspiring conversation with Anne Graham Lotz about prayer. Be ready to be challenged to the very core about your prayer life.