Revival is coming to Spain! Now what? Damaris and her zealous young Entrust team dream of disciple-making movements spreading across not only Spain but the Iberian Peninsula and the entire Spanish-speaking world. How might their passion and ideas apply in your corner of the world?
Todd Randall [00:00:03]: Welcome back to Entrust Equipping leaders.
Kelsey Rose [00:00:06]: We're talking about a generation of Christians who recognizes the need to disciple, but maybe hasn't been discipled themselves.
Todd Randall [00:00:13]: Today, we pick up where we left off last time … in Spain. With the dream and vision of revival and disciple-making spreading across the Iberian Peninsula and the entire Spanish-speaking world.
Dámaris Zafra [00:00:30]: Because this is our dream, to be a tool for the Spanish church to help to disciple others and that will also disciple others. And this is where Iberia Project comes in.
Todd Randall [00:00:44]: Laurie’s guests once again are Dámaris Zafra, Joshua Sánchez, Kelsey Rose, and Sheila Bader.
Laurie Lind [00:00:56]: And so there's the reaching people with the gospel, that’s the evangelism side and that seems to become becoming more organic and natural in some places like you said, Kelsey. And then and then beyond evangelism, there comes the ongoing growth, the discipling, the taking people deeper. What is available to young believers now in Spain in that way?
Kelsey Rose [00:01:23]: I would agree with Dámaris that the church is moving toward disciple-making movements. There's this realization that, like the way that we've been doing things doesn't work anymore. Just taking care of the Sunday service, making sure that we have our Christian events, and stuff like that. Isn't working to make true disciples of Jesus. That able to engage the culture, engage the engage the hearts of the Spanish people. So well, like, the traditional, idea maybe that people might have is, oh, if I wanna take my Christian faith seriously, the maybe I would need to go to seminary. But since I'm not going to go to seminary, then maybe I'll just come to terms with the fact that I'll just have a mediocre faith or something like that. Even though there are so many resources available online, anybody who goes online with a question or wants to study the bible, they can find resources online.
Kelsey Rose [00:02:19]: But that aspect of discipleship, of actually walking with another person is so necessary, but at the same time, we're talking about a generation of Christians who recognizes the need to disciple, but maybe hasn't been discipled themselves. So we're trying to figure out on our own kind of what this really looks like in practice and how this translates into our context.
Dámaris Zafra [00:02:45]: Mhmm. And this is where the Iberia Project comes because this is our dream, to be a tool for the Spanish church to how to disciple others and that will also disciple others. So, I agree with Kelsey that we are the generation, at least me, that I'm 37 years old. I've never had a discipleship or 1 on 1 or someone who was taking care of me to help me grow. Now I have and I had some mentors, now that I grew up. But in my teenage years or my twenties, I didn't. So I learning kind of falling down, and the Lord was merciful. And then, okay, let's start again.
Dámaris Zafra [00:03:27]: That's a real need in my heart. Okay. That's there's a real need there that's not only about sharing the gospel. It's about discipling others. And this is why Iberia Project comes, to be a tool to the church, that they might use good open questions to make people think by themselves and not just sharing, okay, those are the ideas. It's more like, okay, let's see together the Bible and what's the Bible say.
Laurie Lind [00:03:55]: Well, that's what I was hoping to hear more too about the Iberia Project. Let's back up a little bit because this vision for the Iberia Project came to you, Dámaris, I guess, in about 2016 when you were in Switzerland. Is that correct? Yeah. Describe how you developed this idea, this vision, and I also would like you to talk about why you're calling it Iberia Project and not the Spain Project.
Dámaris Zafra [00:04:26]: It was actually, it was not only me. We were 4 of us who dreamt about, okay, we put the desire in front of the Lord. And we said, okay. Now we have this tool. What do you want us to do with that? And because we were studying at seminary at that time and in it's seminary is 4 years. That needs to take, you know, and it's all about getting, information. But within this 10 days of training in Switzerland that changed our whole view of okay. Now we have all this information here, but how we share it to others what, What's the process? So Entrust gave us this tool on, okay, making that reality, to others, like how to make good questions and how to share with others what we've been, learning.
Dámaris Zafra [00:05:19]: And, we dreamt to okay. This is a tool that will be really good and needed for the Spanish church. So we try to translate it to Spanish and offer that into seminaries and different churches in Spain and to have a complete project that will be in Spanish with all the models translated. So that was our dream in 2016, And I become part of Entrust in 2019 because when you put a dream in front of the Lord, he doesn't forget it. So I was having a kind of quite a year in 2019, and the Lord reminded me about that dream. And that made me realize okay. Because he called me with Matthew, the great commission where the Lord says, go and make disciples to all the nations and teach them to obey. So I thought, how shall I do it, Lord? How do I do that? Shall I go to another places, or shall I go to Africa? I was just having quite a year, and the Lord spoke to me clear.
Dámaris Zafra [00:06:29]: He said, this is what I want you to do. Just start doing it. And we started in seminary in Barcelona. We offered at the 1st training in Spanish in 2019, with one of the ladies that was in Switzerland too, And the dream became true. So, we call it the Iberia Project because, we were focusing not only in Spain, but all the Iberia Peninsula, like, also Portugal. And, in we were also even dreaming about, South America.
Laurie Lind [00:07:09]: And can we back up, and can we tell another story from you, Dámaris. I'd love to hear how you dreamed of going to Africa to serve God. That was your initial longing heart's desire, and then God change that. Just describe what how God did that.
Dámaris Zafra [00:07:28]: Yeah. I I actually always wanted to be black, but the Lord made me white and blonde. So it was kind of frustrating asking the lord, why I cannot be black and go to Africa? But he had other plans. In in 2012, I had the opportunity to travel to Canada, Toronto, and I was in an internship there for 1 year, and I was searching for the will of God for my life to where to spend my time and where to go afterwards to serve him, and I was just praying for that. And one day, someone in my devotional time, my prayer time, someone came with a book that it's called Operation World. And I opened that book, and I was having the idea of of going to Burundi as, to serve the Lord over there. That, I opened that book and I opened Spain, and I saw that in Spain less than 1% of population is a believer. So that completely break broke my heart.
Dámaris Zafra [00:08:40]: And I remember that I started crying, and the Lord placed a deep love for my own, country in that specific moment because I up to then, I always remember wanting to leave Spain. I I was saying, okay. I want to go wherever, the Lord calls me, but I don't want to stay in Spain. But in that specific moment, the Lord completely broke my heart, and I started just weeping and crying and saying, I'm sorry, because now I understand that you made me with a purpose. You made me Spaniard with a purpose. You made me to know the language with a purpose and also the to know about the culture with a purpose, and I want to use all of that for your glory. And this then I stayed there the whole year, and then I came back to Spain. And since then, I'm in Spain.
Dámaris Zafra [00:09:37]: I even married a Catalan. Because I I always thought, you know, I I can't be black, but I can marry a black man. But he’s not a black man.
Laurie Lind [00:09:49]: Actually, culturally, you are a Catalan. Is that right? You and your husband?
Dámaris Zafra [00:09:56]: Yeah. People from Barcelona. They are called Catalans.
Laurie Lind [00:10:01]: So, I mean, we back up to that from Africa to just realizing God has you living in Spain and being a a Spaniard for a reason, and then comes this vision about bringing this Entrust training. And all of you, I'd like to hear more like, are your thoughts about what this these Entrust modules have that can work or not work to meet the needs in in Spanish culture?
Kelsey Rose [00:10:24]: At the beginning of the conversation. Dámaris and Joshua pointed out that Spain is a very conversational culture, a very relational culture. Spaniards love to talk. They love to be listened to. So one of the, I think, one of the great assets that Entrust, offers to as a tool for Spanish believers is the fact that we can go deeper in our faith through conversation. We don't have to leave aside that cultural aspect of our personality to be able to go deeper, but we can actually use that aspect of the culture to go deeper. So, yeah, I think that that's one of the one of the aspects of Entrust that really fits well with Spanish culture, and also questions. At least with this younger generation as well, I think there's a big value on questions.
Kelsey Rose [00:11:17]: And we're talking about a generation that has a lot of information, information overload. Everywhere they go, whether it's social media, whether it's Google. In their university, there's always a dump of information and very little guidance as to how to navigate all that information. So even that happened that happens even in church sometimes where we just dump a lot of information on believers and don't really guide them through the process of learning to think biblically, learning to think like a Jesus follower. So I believe that the aspect of questions of actually confronting people with their with their assumptions, with their motivations, with their beliefs, and actually using that to help them go deeper is also a very, helpful tool.
Dámaris Zafra [00:12:07]: I think also the idea of practicing before leaving. Like, you prepare things beforehand. You can't like you read something and you expect, like, a master class, like someone tagging all the time. But then it is this aspect of modeling that we are doing what they will do and that they feel like It's a safe place to practice and that they can, be well prepared before doing it in other spaces. So I think that's one of the most key points of Entrust trainings that you leave thinking, okay. Now I'm sure, and I'm ready to do it by myself with others.
Laurie Lind [00:12:54]: What is it? What do you leave thinking you can do?
Dámaris Zafra [00:12:58]: To how to facilitate small groups, how to facilitate learning, how to make good open questions that will make the others think and how to really go deep into scripture with observation, interpretation, application questions. So, but it's about, knowing how to share with others, and they will be able to share it with others. And, Yeah. I don't know. Just practicing there, it makes feel like safe environment that people feel, okay. Now I'm ready to move on and to do it with others.
Sheila Bader [00:13:44]: Dámaris share the story that you told me about the gal that was at your training on Saturday that came up to you and said, oh, now I can use this with my family.
Dámaris Zafra [00:13:57]: Mhmm. At with I I did a workshop on Saturday in my church, and I didn't have a lot of time. I only had an a half, and I thought, what's the most important things? And the good thing is open questions because we think we know how to do open questions. But then When doing Entrust training, we realized we didn't. So I tried to do a highlight on that. And at the end of the training, a woman came and said, thank you, because I just realized that I was doing a lot of closed ended questions to my kids when they come out from school. And now I will think before making a question to them, and I will make a good open question to really see what they had been through the whole day. So I thought that was Interesting.
Kelsey Rose [00:14:48]: I would also add that Entrust is really helpful for Spanish believers because it gives them a tool to disciple as they are. They might not have a lot of biblical or theological backgrounds, but I believe that the training that Entrust offers empowers them to use what little they do know to be able to disciple others. So it kinda breaks down this mental barrier that, no, I can't disciple somebody because I don't know enough. But instead, it brings them to that point of, okay. We'll learn together. I don't have to know everything to be able to disciple somebody. I don't have to have gone to seminary to be able to disciple somebody. But even as long as I have my bible And as long as I have willingness and and depending on the holy spirit, then with the training that I've received, we can we can go forward, and I can disciple others.
Joshua Sanchez [00:15:40]: Maybe well, also helps the that we emphasize in being a servant leader. I mean, the servant leadership. So people here, they reject, the to be controlled. I mean, I have my life. You have your life. You don't have, any kind of, authority to, know each detail, about my life or about what I do in my, In my life, so when you encourage people to be servants instead of to be, like, more I don't know.
Joshua Sanchez [00:16:27]: Yes. We encourage people to be to be, servant and not to control people, to control the their disciples. You're more well, we find, or at least I find that people are more open to be discipled, And you can disciple people better. I mean, we're at the at the same at the same point, maybe not at the same stage of life, but we're trying to learn how to follow Jesus. I'm not your, An expert in Christian life. We're walking together. So it's a it's Very great point here, at least in in Spanish church, to know that we are equals. You're not better than me. You're I'm not worse than you.
Dámaris Zafra [00:17:21]: Yeah. I I think what just are just 2 words that I think that makes, Vulnerability is shown at the trainings and also humility that the leaders or the ones who are training others are not above the rest. You know? They are but they are with the group, being able to share their own experiences also sometimes to be open and say, oh, that's a good thing and an idea and thought about and being just 1 more of the group because this is, teaching by example And not by saying you should do that, but showing how to do it. And I think all the Entrust training is focused on that. Like, I'm gonna show you how to be vulnerable. I'm gonna show you how to be humble. I'm gonna show you how to facilitate learning with others.
Dámaris Zafra [00:18:21]: And it's not about me saying you have to do it. It's just me being in that spot that they will see that I am doing it. So I think that's what makes a difference in those kind of trainings.
Laurie Lind [00:18:35]: So what is the status of the Iberia project now? I I mean, the vision is there. The dream is there, and I think, Damaris, you're gaining a team. In some ways, Joshua and Kelsey and maybe Ari too. What are you all doing, or what where is the what's happening now, and what's the ongoing vision?
Joshua Sanchez [00:18:55]: We're being part of a revival here in Spain.
Dámaris Zafra [00:18:58]: And you maybe you can say that just once nore.
Dámaris Zafra [00:19:04]: Can you repeat that, Joshua, please?
Joshua Sanchez [00:19:06]: That we're being part of a revival here in Spain.
Dámaris Zafra [00:19:10]: Amen. This is our dream, to be part. We are part of that, but we also dream to not only share the gospel, but how to train others to make disciples that will disciple others. So what we're doing is trying to offer Entrust trainings to the Spanish church. So we started in Barcelona, Madrid, and in Canada that are key cities of the country, but we're dreaming to go all over Spain. We're dreaming to go to, east, north, west, and south. So that's our dream, and we're working to achieve that With workshops, trainings, and a lot of prayer.
Laurie Lind [00:20:02]: What roles do you play, Joshua and Kelsey, in that?
Kelsey Rose [00:20:07]: Right now, I am mainly in a support role. So, whatever I can do here in Malaga mainly, where I live, I like to get involved and do that. Right now, I am doing some follow-up with the people who came to the training in August that we did, and Joshua and Damaris were both here. It was a really fun training because we had 4 generations of Entrust Disciples. They're, represented, so it was very fun. But in the last few weeks since then, well, part of my role, for example, has been walking with these people, meeting with them again, asking them what they need, how they're planning on putting this into practice, and help continue to give them tools and guidance to be able to continue to disciple others.
Laurie Lind [00:20:54]: And when you say 4 generations of Entrust disciples, what exactly does that mean?
Kelsey Rose [00:21:00]: So we had Damaris who was trained in Switzerland, and then Damaris trained Joshua. And then last December, when I did the Entrust training, Joshua trained me, and then I was also participating in the training. So now I was discipling the Malaganians that were there at the training.
Laurie Lind [00:21:22]: So Joshua and, actually, Sheila as well, what are your roles in the ongoing Iberian vision.
Sheila Bader [00:21:30]: My role is just to grab onto their coattails and hang on, Because the ship is sailing or the plane is flying. And as you can see, it's, guys just doing some great things. So, honestly, I am, you know, an international director for equipping women, But this is equipping women and men in Spain. So I would say my role is mostly just to, support, especially Dámaris and just making sure she's doing well personally and to help with strategic planning, help, you know, do look at, Oviedo and Zaragoza and, Granada and all those other cities. In fact, it's so funny because the whole time we've been in this conversation, I keep thinking of When I was, in my mid twenties and was serving in Madrid, I went to visit a pastor in Obiedo, which is in the northwest corner of Spain, and he had a ministry of puppets. He did puppets in, like a where people, you know, were always traveling, and, then we would hand out an invitation to a bible correspondence course, to people who came to see the puppet shows. So I was standing on a street corner at in rush hour traffic, handing out these, invitations to bible studies, and I had these this little old lady dressed completely in black, which is was very common in those days. And she came up to me, and there were people everywhere all around me, and she said, which means you are from the devil.
Sheila Bader [00:23:25]: And people started, like, you know, taking space away from like, you know, moving away from me like and now this this is just such a cool, another season of life for the gospel in Spain where, you know, people are open to the gospel, and we have a tool. We have lots of tools, and we have young people who are, engaged. So it's just it's kind of a full circle, just an incredible privilege and joy for me to see what God is doing and to have a very small part.
Dámaris Zafra [00:24:04]: Actually if we are where we are today, it's because Sheila is a great mentor.
Laurie Lind [00:24:09]: And, Joshua, what's what part are you playing?
Joshua Sanchez [00:24:13]: Well, my main role maybe is to help Dámaris to keep her awake when we're traveling.
Sheila Bader [00:24:23]: Thank you for doing that, Joshua.
Joshua Sanchez [00:24:26]: We do so long trips, But, well, sometimes I fall asleep first, so it's not like in my then.
Joshua Sanchez [00:24:38]: When in my free times, I I go with, facilitating, lessons and things like that. Maybe as Kelsey is super here with the work that that he's hanging on her hands so glad. It's a lot of work. So we're helping in in this.
Laurie Lind [00:24:59]: You know, these young Spanish Christians, they have got it. I recently heard someone talking about the evangelical church in America and how sometimes we focus more on programs than people, and we haven't really discipled people. Dámaris and her team see that. Next time, we'll hear a little bit more about what kind of training most pastors have available to them now in Spain and what Damaris and Kelsey and Joshua are working toward.
Dámaris Zafra [00:25:28]: The church is everyone. Right? Everyone who's a believer and believes in Jesus Christ as the son of God. So we are church here also. So how we can train them to become disciples who disciple others.
Laurie Lind [00:25:43]: That's next time right here on Entrust Equipping Leaders.